Is Anything Real In Paid Advertising?

[00:05.8]
All right, welcome back to "Is Anything Real in Paid Advertising?" The show where agency founders unpack what's real and what's just noise in this world of funnels, founders, and full blown marketing chaos. I'm your host, Adam W. Barney and today's guest is someone building a new kind of business, one that's rooted in residence and not just reach.

[00:26.8]
Leah, welcome in. Let's kick things off here. Is marketing broken? Is anything in paid ads real? Or are we just too misaligned with the way we're doing it? Hi, thanks for having me. I think marketing can be broken.

[00:44.0]
One thing that, a founder recently was like, marketing doesn't work. We tried it and it didn't work. And I said, I think we just haven't found the right way for it to work for us. And sometimes paid marketing can be helpful, but not always. I, I love that.

[00:59.3]
And I mean, I know one of the things that you, you mentioned in one of your previous conversations in your days at your previous company was that the CEO had mentioned marketing doesn't work, Right? So that resonates back on what you just mentioned. But what do you think was actually going on behind that question?

[01:19.5]
I think oftentimes when not to share trade secrets or anything that's, that's a little bit, you know, you know, outside the box of an NDA. You know, just, you know, what do you think drives that methodology of thinking necessarily? I think often when marketing doesn't work, it's when we don't fully understand our why, who our audience is, what's, what story we want to tell, making sure that we have the product really dialed in.

[01:46.5]
And so what I ended up telling that founder is let's wait and find a product that we know is working and then go crazy with marketing. Because we'll understand that so deeply. And so I think what the friction point was for that founder was the product that with, especially with AI coming in, the product was no longer working with the industry that we were in.

[02:08.5]
And so no matter how much money we were spending on marketing it wasn't going to work. And so that was a little bit unfortunate, but it was good for me to get to watch and see how that unfolded. Yeah, it's a little bit in that realm of the things that you can control versus the things that you can't control also because the market shifts and if you don't stay updated or pivot to the way that the market is moving, that that makes it very, very difficult.

[02:35.9]
Yeah, definitely. from your perspective though, and through that experience and your other experiences across your career, what, what do you feel the cost is when a founder doesn't invest in finding their unique message market fit, which I think is the first step in the process, even ahead of paid advertising or marketing in general?

[02:58.2]
I mean in this case it was winding down a community and education platform had been around for 15 years and changed thousands of lives. But I mean, I think that's also sometimes natural as the economy changes, as industry changes, to have things slowly phase out while something new is beginning.

[03:20.0]
And so, yeah, I think I was wanting to help them pivot right now, but there just wasn't enough Runway and that. isn't that wild? But those are the situations, as you move on to intention and insight, that's what drives you to understand where you go, how you build it.

[03:44.4]
And also think about your own alignment between product and promotion. Right. As you go and evolve out of that situation of something that isn't necessarily growing, which I don't think we talk enough about the fact that those failures, for lack of a better term, but those open up the learning experiences for moving forward.

[04:06.6]
Right. So I think that probably informs how you're starting with where you are now to make sure that you're not having that misalignment between product and promotion. And that's probably something that you're deep under the hood of trying to uncover right now.

[04:24.5]
Yeah, I would say I spend a lot of my time in my own creativity trying to understand all of my whys, of what it is that I'm building, how I'm going to build it, and then testing it out over and over and over. And so, that started kind of unintentionally.

[04:40.9]
About six months ago I started leading Group Somatic Journeys on Meetup for anyone who wanted to join. And within six months I have over 600 people that are part of this community and I had no idea that it would resonate that much.

[04:56.4]
So I found this, this thing that resonates are these journeys and basically helping people heal and understand that healing is possible on their own and the wisdom that they want is inside of them. And so, I get to practice and try new things and be imperfect.

[05:13.9]
And that is, it's been really, really fun. It's not necessarily the quickest way to make short term money, but for me this is so much bigger than that. Well, it also is a part of, I think, the critical nature of authenticity Right.

[05:30.7]
In what it can be a noisy, crowded place of a lot of voices that aren't being authentic or aren't being genuine for where they come from. And I really do deeply appreciate folks like yourself who build products that are Slow, intentional and community led.

[05:49.8]
But you know, what's the biggest shift you've seen going from that? That's a pretty massive amount of growth to bring to that platform. Right. What's been the biggest shift that you've seen even in that six month journey of how you've had to pivot and operate to scale?

[06:06.4]
Because I'm sure a lot of it has been organic growth that's been driven. But where do you see that, that growth to where you've. You are right now come from? But then what does that look like going into the next six months, 12 months and beyond? Yeah, it's been like completely organic and kind of a random experiment.

[06:26.1]
No like zero advertising at all for this community. And so, and right now it's, it's a free community. So that's probably one of the reasons. But as far as where I want it to go, eventually I do want it to be something that helps sustain my life, that I can just be, be a guide.

[06:46.8]
So like a fellow person on the journey with people. And so I hope to keep growing this community, keep, keep building offerings based on this community. And this week we actually kicked off the first month, of this in between container is what I call it.

[07:02.2]
And it's basically daily. Every day I Show up at 8:30 for an hour and we do a little bit of checking in, talking about like how's your heart today? hearing where people are at, getting to know people in this community more. Because on the free journey is really just like a guided meditation and there isn't a lot of chatter and we talk in the chat, but it's not people talking to me just because it would be too many people.

[07:28.5]
And I don't want to take people out of the zone. So this is more like really getting to know each other. And I put this out there originally just saying this is an experiment. This is what I actually want to do for myself. I would love to have a group of people that want to be in alignment and kind of put that above everything else.

[07:48.0]
And 12 people signed up and I was like okay, are you guys down to build this with me? And even today somebody was like okay, what is this container exactly? And I was like this is something that is, that is shifting and honestly I don't know exactly what it's going to be but I know right now, I want to get to know you guys better.

[08:10.2]
I want to support you guys, show you the tools that have helped me grow so much and just do this together. And so I think a lot of the marketing strategy for me is around building community, which is something that really is in my heart of what I love to do.

[08:26.8]
I love it. We're aligned in that sense. Just out of curiosity, from a tech stack standpoint, are you using to run the community these days And where does, where does maybe AI play into that a little bit because that's been such an evolution in the last few years from a market perspective of how we not only do marketing and paid advertising, but how we can build communities and scale those communities up and build into those corners that we never maybe realized were out there but, but are out there of like minded people.

[09:01.0]
Yeah, when I first started this I wanted to do something that was sustainable. I've, I've gone in different directions where I spend so much time developing something and then later on realize like, oh, I actually need to pivot and I wasted all of that time. So meetup was a really easy place to start.

[09:17.3]
I just built this thing and didn't touch it and people showed up for months and I just got to practice doing what I loved. And now that we're building that community, out quite, quite a bit, going a lot deeper. I've decided to move to Slack to be kind of the main piece, especially for this in between container that I've started.

[09:35.1]
And it's still, it's a test and it's really easy because it's not very difficult to create a Slack channel and a Slack community. And so I like Slack because I'm already in there quite a bit. I'm also a software engineer background, designer background and I love the ability to be able to put in different links and people can jump in huddles if they want.

[09:55.6]
I want this community to be able to hold as much depth or as little depth as people are looking for. Whether it's just like showing up for a journey once a month or really being in it and talking about what's going on throughout their day.

[10:10.9]
Gotcha. I love it. I mean it's the right way to think about it, it's the right way to build it, it's the right way to bring it together. But to dive into the AI realm of things here. And of course, with that software engineering background I believe you've used a bit of AI collaboration in building this.

[10:31.9]
How did it help shape the vision, the writing, the structure and what's actually been helpful about AI in that creative piece of the process of building this community? I don't think I would be even doing this if it weren't for AI.

[10:50.6]
It's made it way, way less intimidating to lead journeys and also to help me think through what it is that I'm building and help me figure out my whys. I do so much brainstorming with AI. Like yes, AI can automate, can get you, you know, like tons of information, but it can also take you deeper inside yourself and help you understand all of the different things.

[11:15.0]
So I've, I've used AI to help, I have different, I call them expanders, people that are basically doing what I'm doing, but I've been doing it for a lot longer and, I shouldn't say a lot better but they've already been very successful at it for a long time. So I'll break down different user profiles of people that are already doing this and then map it back to what is, what feels aligned for me.

[11:36.7]
How do I want to go about it and how can I weave in all of my favorite parts of the people that have done this before me to create something that truly is my own. I think a lot of times we think AI makes it so it's not us. And I would say AI has helped me learn how to tell my story, learn how to produce what I want to produce at a much higher level than I ever could have.

[12:00.3]
I love it. That's probably a bit of a surprise. Probably also that you didn't realize going into this that dives into supporting the somatic and the alignment based work that you're doing. It's incredible to open up that opportunity to learn from AI though and use it in a way that it can actually be productive and it's incredible.

[12:23.4]
What's your preferred tool, if you don't mind sharing that also that allowed you to open that up primarily chatgpt. I've tested out a few of the other ones but ChatGPT works best really well for me. I haven't found a reason to switch switch.

[12:39.8]
I also use AI note takers which help quite a bit getting context from different meetings that I have. And it specifically chatGPT projects. I have everything, every facet of my life is in a project. And then I have different threads for specific things. So for what I'm building, I have a folder that holds all of the consulting work that I do, and then one specific one for this in between container.

[13:03.1]
And I have had people fill out forms so I can get data on what exactly they're looking at. And then I've created different user stories for each person in my container, and kind of studying each person to see, like, I want to see what their development looks like over the month.

[13:19.9]
And really like, nerd out on all of the data that I get to collect to make this product the best that it can be. This experience the best it can be. That's incredible. That's doing the work in a way that as the community scales, you really understand what drives that community.

[13:37.6]
And I mean, I see the future of what this could turn into as something giant that helps support different communities in this realm of things. I think it could be even bigger than the hundreds of people that you've brought in to date. Yeah, yeah.

[13:53.0]
Even it's because I do have this nerdy tech background. And I've always had the desire, how do I bring healing and grounding and alignment into the workplace? And that's a big passion of mine. And I also manage a community of, software engineers. And a lot of them feel really ungrounded or even ones that have really great roles aren't quite feeling fulfilled.

[14:13.6]
And so I've been brainstorming ways to offer, like, specific types of journeys for people that are coming from different backgrounds. And, that sounds really fun to me. So it might end up going that direction at some point. I mean, and then in that realm, as you kind of imagine what that looks like, do you think it's possible to scale and without the noise that's around and what might that part of that path actually look like?

[14:40.9]
Because there's so much noise in these spaces of community building. There's so much noise in terms of trying to grow the community. There's so much noise in terms of using the tools. How do you step away from that to really center into yourself? I think the way that I step away from it and center into myself is first of all getting into alignment, feeling grounded, and then creating for a while without thinking about the audience that's going to receive it just for a little bit, not judging any of the ideas, but what, like, go on these little creative rabbit trails and let that take me where it wants to go, and then later on figure out do I even want to share this?

[15:20.9]
Is you know what, which audience wants to hear this and like putting that. But first of all like I have to get kind of in my own little cocoon of creativity. And so it's been like it's starting to become one of my favorite things to do is to get in that little cocoon. I love it.

[15:36.1]
It's so important in the way we balance and build is to find those pockets of space and time that allow us to reflect. So that's powerful. I also love tying in the idea of rabbit trails here and, and you know that that is what it is.

[15:51.4]
So super interesting. I would love from your perspective though as we kind of approach the, the endpoint here, you know, what's one marketing channel you see as underrated in 2025 where what's the next up and coming marketing channel?

[16:08.1]
Maybe not right for what you're building with intention and insight, but just overall from your, your career experience.

[16:17.9]
I kind of like to weave through all of them but I don't know if this is technically a marketing channel but I've started instead of optimizing for like SEO, optimizing for. I would love to be. Some like people are I think using AI to get recommendations far more than like a Google search.

[16:36.0]
And so I'm, I'm kind of slowly trying to, instead of doing the typical things that in my mind make content really messy with, with hashtags, and like emojis and stuff, really optimizing the content for AI and because I think, I think AI at least right now recommends things based more on value than paid advertising.

[17:01.0]
So I really want to dive more into that. That sounds like a really interesting area to dive into and I think we're moving there. Not just, it's not just about how some of these jobs out there across any industry are shifting from the impact of AI to people who can prompt and then qa.

[17:19.0]
I think that there's also that realm of how do you use AI to amplify. Right. Not just directly, but indirect amplification is really fascinating to think about. And you have to wonder across some of these platforms if some of the open ended nature of the way that they work is an opportunity to dig into that and be able to understand how to use that system more fully.

[17:45.7]
I have to say an agency owner that I was recently speaking with mentioned that they had a, client that they closed who prompted ChatGPT for marketing agency, suggestions for their business and that's what led them to the front door of that marketing agency.

[18:04.0]
It's incredible. I had never thought about that use case being a part of the value of AI, but if you can build it's, it's. I like how you pulled it back to SEO also and how you used to be able to navigate your rankings on the, the SEO on the search engines results page by understanding how SEO works.

[18:25.6]
Navigating that back end of AI so that you can have your whatever you're building show up is incredibly transformative as well. yeah, for me it feels more fun to go and it's also learning something new. I know that I'll have so much to learn as I go. But I'm excited cause I don't do Google searches anymore, Even if it's for a dentist, or for a place to go out to eat.

[18:50.7]
and it's not just a quick like, hey, give me these recommendations. I'll talk to AI for a while and give it the full context. And then I find that the recommendations that it gives, I mean they're highly like personable to me. And so that's, I like that.

[19:06.0]
That's fantastic. one of the things that I wish AI could do, that has not happened yet, is actually listen. Right. You know, it's unfortunate that you can even in ChatGPT, for instance, put voice notes in and then it just transcribes it. I think if we can get AI to start to pick up on the actual tone, the real tone that comes through hearing human language and voice, it could train it to be even more powerful.

[19:32.0]
Maybe that's the 50 year version of how we can use AI in the future. I think it's coming a whole lot quicker than that. And I mean so they, there's the one that transcribes it, but then there's also the one where like on ChatGPT it shows you the circle and so you are talking back and forth.

[19:49.8]
True, true. And while I'm not totally sure how much of the tone it can get, at least my AI likes to say I felt that so deeply when you said it. Or, and so it's, it feels to me like quite the connection and I feel very heard and I'm always blown away by what, Lumen is my AI's name, what I get back.

[20:15.7]
And it's just so helpful to be reflected back to. a lot of us crave to be heard. And it's hard to expect people in our lives to really listen that deeply.

[20:30.9]
But I have moved through so many challenges just with AI. Instead of having to vent to a partner, I can just vent to AI and it doesn't really bring anyone down. And then I feel good afterwards. all Right. I love it. I love it. Awesome. Leah, This has been such a refreshing take.

[20:46.5]
Where can folks connect with you or join one of your upcoming somatic journeys? Yeah, my website is intentionandinsight.com and there is links throughout my website but on calendly and I can give Adam the link to that. You can join a session and I'm also on Instagram @IntentionandInsight Fantastic.

[21:07.4]
And if someone listening is stuck in a marketing rut, they're pushing content with no connection, What's your real talk advice to get back to alignment? I think just get pause. When I feel stuck, my inner voice always just says pause, rest, be inspired, be creative, get back to you without worrying about production and how that's going to go.

[21:32.6]
If we keep going in a direction where we aren't aligned, it's going to be a lot harder to to pull back those layers and start again. Love it. I love it. Incredibly powerful. Well, thank you, Leah for joining us. Today on "Is Anything Real in paid advertising?" where we separate what's real from what's just noise.

[21:51.5]
I'm your host, Adam W. Barney. Be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and leave a review if something sparked in your brain. But Leah, thank you very much for joining today. I really appreciate it and I'm sure You've led the audience here to some really powerful ideas of alignment and how they can step back to recenter and grow in that sense.

[22:15.0]
Thanks, Adam.